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Permalink Reply by Sandra White on December 6, 2010 at 11:49

Hi, Don,

thanks for this. You seem to be on our wavelength, in identifying that this campaign is a good place to start - see below for our experience of developing this kind of initiative in Hertford a couple of years ago.

Before I go on, though, is it possible for you to upload the document in something other than an .odt format? My older Office system can't open it ad I imagine I won't be alone in this! Or can you provide a link to the article if it's still online?

One of our first initiatives in Hertford a couple of years ago was to work towards a 'Hertford Town Bag', which was aimed at developing an alternative to the plastic bag in a creative way which involved the whole town. The Town and East Herts Councils were on board, as was the local paper which was set to run two competitions, for the slogan and the image. An event was held aimed at the town's independent businesses, which was hosted by our MP, Mark Prisk, and the local FE college was going to offer the design of the bag as a project to their art students. However, we ran into the recession and the local businesses in the end were too preoccupied, in the main, to get behind the scheme.

My own view is to question whether now is the time to resurrect it in the town, not least because empty shop fronts are, at the moment, a feature of the centre of Hertford. One of the main things we discovered when we were consulting with the independent shops was just how cheap it is for them to buy plastic bags in bulk - and we were not able to match that with the cornstarch-based alternatives. Some of the shops had also recently stocked up on plastic bags carrying their logo, so they were even less willing to discard them. A range of alternatives to plastic bags are now widely available here, in some small shops as well as the supermarkets, and so some people in our group began to worry that the market for alternatives to plastic bags may be near to saturation, even while we were progressing the scheme.

Part of what we're trying to do in Hertford is find ways to bring the community on board which are not too confrontational - as, here, that would be counter-productive. So, I look forward to reading the article - and to understanding better the point you make about schemes like Modbury not working, so that we can dialogue about this perhaps a bit more.

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on December 8, 2010 at 9:15

Hi Sandra - and welcome to the Juice!

ok yes link is
http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/articles/2007/05/01/modbury_plas...
the point about "not working" was a reference to the main page link to that article not working, not a reference to the scheme, which is and as far as I can tell still is working. However we're talking a town of only 43 shops, and it was put in place before the present reccesion hit us (for those who aren't aware of our histories, Bank induced reccesions, of which our present one is a classic example, have been visited upon us for almost four hundred years with a monotonous regularity, the majority of which are triggered to achieve specific effects, such as allowing the central reserve banking system to become the corrupt master of our financial destinies) so presumably it was an easier process for shopkeepers to embrace.

I've attached that article below in Microsoft 97 format so hopefully it works on yr machine - but it raises an interesting further point which I'll cover in a follow up item :-)

The history of the Hertford Initiative is really welcome, and an excellent reassurance of the activity taking place before the transition initiative was embraced, presumably by many of those who are now members of our steering group, so massive kudo's yes :-) is there a log or record of similar actions perhaps, failed or not, that might avoid future duplication? The really striking point about that previous initiative is that, even with so much support from organisations and people in the community, it was the shopkeepers themselves who rejected it, purely on the basis of cost. Is there possibly some food for further thinking in that refusal? (I'd love to entice the wives of those shopkeepers to a video of the kind of damage plastic causes to our fellow life forms, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking - or are there any organisations in Hertford/East Herts specific to women that we could enroll to this and other causes, including the Initiative proper, so to speak?) I say women because for years I've believed if you really want to change the world, only women have the power and the means to do that effectively, but perhaps that's another conversation we can have :-)

I seem to remember that when this became more of a national issue, supermarkets initially set themselves the target of reducing their plastic bag supplies to nil during a change over period, That seems to have effectively ceased, though all of them offer alternatives as another choice for their consumers. I appreciate this is a hard nut to crack, particularly in a reccesion, so maybe we have to come to it by a different angle, and in a longer term. Perhaps a no plastic bags condition should apply to local food outlets that are supported by the Initiative, as in locally resourced supplies of food. Perhaps we can get some funding to help the initial sale/distribution for locally serving shops to their localised customer base? In other words a joined up approach as we proceed with the Initiative. Or am I again covering old ground here :-)



Sandra White said:

Hi, Don,

thanks for this. You seem to be on our wavelength, in identifying that this campaign is a good place to start - see below for our experience of developing this kind of initiative in Hertford a couple of years ago.

Before I go on, though, is it possible for you to upload the document in something other than an .odt format? My older Office system can't open it ad I imagine I won't be alone in this! Or can you provide a link to the article if it's still online?

One of our first initiatives in Hertford a couple of years ago was to work towards a 'Hertford Town Bag', which was aimed at developing an alternative to the plastic bag in a creative way which involved the whole town. The Town and East Herts Councils were on board, as was the local paper which was set to run two competitions, for the slogan and the image. An event was held aimed at the town's independent businesses, which was hosted by our MP, Mark Prisk, and the local FE college was going to offer the design of the bag as a project to their art students. However, we ran into the recession and the local businesses in the end were too preoccupied, in the main, to get behind the scheme.

My own view is to question whether now is the time to resurrect it in the town, not least because empty shop fronts are, at the moment, a feature of the centre of Hertford. One of the main things we discovered when we were consulting with the independent shops was just how cheap it is for them to buy plastic bags in bulk - and we were not able to match that with the cornstarch-based alternatives. Some of the shops had also recently stocked up on plastic bags carrying their logo, so they were even less willing to discard them. A range of alternatives to plastic bags are now widely available here, in some small shops as well as the supermarkets, and so some people in our group began to worry that the market for alternatives to plastic bags may be near to saturation, even while we were progressing the scheme.

Part of what we're trying to do in Hertford is find ways to bring the community on board which are not too confrontational - as, here, that would be counter-productive. So, I look forward to reading the article - and to understanding better the point you make about schemes like Modbury not working, so that we can dialogue about this perhaps a bit more.

Attachments:

• No plastic bags in town's shops.doc, 380 KB

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on December 9, 2010 at 6:38

in response to Ben's suggestion that we might consider ncluding food sources within a 50 mile radius for a local food directory and as participants in a local food festival, I posted the following response. I include it here for those who are not yet members of the food group but who nevertheless might well be interested . .

"A radius of 50 miles is enough to allow this next source of local food to be part of the suggestions below :-)

Hertfordshire based Agrarian Renaissance signposts the way to a different future . .

Tim Waygood believes that our current system of farming -- geared to a Faustian pact to supply supermarkets who now supply around 85% of what we eat -- is in urgent need of change. So at Church Farm, Stevenage, in Hertfordshire he's creating an alternative. and if you really want to learn about it from the inside you can volunteer to work with Tim on the farm for a period of three months (accommodation supplied and expenses covered) and that's an intensive hands on experience as they only take 2 volunteers at a time!

This edition of Radio 4 series “On Your Farm” was recorded at Church Farm near Stevenage, where Tim's farming philosophy, which he has named 'Agrarian Renaissance' aims to reconnect people, land and food, and offers a radical alternative to what he calls 'corporate supermarket consumerism'.

Wouldn't it be a step into a better future if Hamels Park Farm, Buntingford and or similar farms around Hertford began to farm in similar fashion? Could we perhaps contact Tim and arrange a trip to his family farm by the food group and any other interested 'transitionists?' Preferably in the New Year, Spring even, when the snow and ice have gone, and the sun does warm both our endeavour and my own inclination to be out and about for such a foray? The link below explains all :-)"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s8dhx/On_Your_Farm_Agrarian...

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on December 9, 2010 at 8:27

Another possible alternative, if it hasn't already been tried, is to target just one shop, actually not a shop but a a supermarket chain and at a National level - which would mean bringing all other UK based initiatives on board in a singularly focussed endeavour - As far as I can tell Sainsburys have a demonstably ethical approach to sourcing the food they sell (as for instance their ten year long odysey to make very sure that any palm oil used in any of their products is ethically and sustainably produced without any damage to our rain forests) that kind of responsible attitude to their business model might offer us some hope of pursuading them to go this further step forward. There are other factors that suggest Sainsburys as a first 'target.'

1. Their customer base is mainly drawn from a slightly more affluent section of our societies and, even in a reccession, are more likely to switch wholesale to non plastic bags.

2. If Sainsburies focus on just one bag, their buying power would enable a more sustainable cost in buying them in.

3. Again appealing to their business ethics, we need to pursuade them to sell these at cost to their customers.

4. They would need to announce a cut off date for plastic bags

5. We should pitch them to use this ethical approach to heighten their image in helping to protect our wildlife, with a publicity campaign, possibly asking for their customers help and commitment, perhaps a 'Helping to save our planet' campaign of awareness raising?




don carlin said:

Hi Sandra - and welcome to the Juice!

ok yes link is
http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/articles/2007/05/01/modbury_plas...
the point about "not working" was a reference to the main page link to that article not working, not a reference to the scheme, which is and as far as I can tell still is working. However we're talking a town of only 43 shops, and it was put in place before the present reccesion hit us (for those who aren't aware of our histories, Bank induced reccesions, of which our present one is a classic example, have been visited upon us for almost four hundred years with a monotonous regularity, the majority of which are triggered to achieve specific effects, such as allowing the central reserve banking system to become the corrupt master of our financial destinies) so presumably it was an easier process for shopkeepers to embrace.

I've attached that article below in Microsoft 97 format so hopefully it works on yr machine - but it raises an interesting further point which I'll cover in a follow up item :-)

The history of the Hertford Initiative is really welcome, and an excellent reassurance of the activity taking place before the transition initiative was embraced, presumably by many of those who are now members of our steering group, so massive kudo's yes :-) is there a log or record of similar actions perhaps, failed or not, that might avoid future duplication? The really striking point about that previous initiative is that, even with so much support from organisations and people in the community, it was the shopkeepers themselves who rejected it, purely on the basis of cost. Is there possibly some food for further thinking in that refusal? (I'd love to entice the wives of those shopkeepers to a video of the kind of damage plastic causes to our fellow life forms, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking - or are there any organisations in Hertford/East Herts specific to women that we could enroll to this and other causes, including the Initiative proper, so to speak?) I say women because for years I've believed if you really want to change the world, only women have the power and the means to do that effectively, but perhaps that's another conversation we can have :-)

I seem to remember that when this became more of a national issue, supermarkets initially set themselves the target of reducing their plastic bag supplies to nil during a change over period, That seems to have effectively ceased, though all of them offer alternatives as another choice for their consumers. I appreciate this is a hard nut to crack, particularly in a reccesion, so maybe we have to come to it by a different angle, and in a longer term. Perhaps a no plastic bags condition should apply to local food outlets that are supported by the Initiative, as in locally resourced supplies of food. Perhaps we can get some funding to help the initial sale/distribution for locally serving shops to their localised customer base? In other words a joined up approach as we proceed with the Initiative. Or am I again covering old ground here :-)



Sandra White said:

Hi, Don,

thanks for this. You seem to be on our wavelength, in identifying that this campaign is a good place to start - see below for our experience of developing this kind of initiative in Hertford a couple of years ago.

Before I go on, though, is it possible for you to upload the document in something other than an .odt format? My older Office system can't open it ad I imagine I won't be alone in this! Or can you provide a link to the article if it's still online?

One of our first initiatives in Hertford a couple of years ago was to work towards a 'Hertford Town Bag', which was aimed at developing an alternative to the plastic bag in a creative way which involved the whole town. The Town and East Herts Councils were on board, as was the local paper which was set to run two competitions, for the slogan and the image. An event was held aimed at the town's independent businesses, which was hosted by our MP, Mark Prisk, and the local FE college was going to offer the design of the bag as a project to their art students. However, we ran into the recession and the local businesses in the end were too preoccupied, in the main, to get behind the scheme.

My own view is to question whether now is the time to resurrect it in the town, not least because empty shop fronts are, at the moment, a feature of the centre of Hertford. One of the main things we discovered when we were consulting with the independent shops was just how cheap it is for them to buy plastic bags in bulk - and we were not able to match that with the cornstarch-based alternatives. Some of the shops had also recently stocked up on plastic bags carrying their logo, so they were even less willing to discard them. A range of alternatives to plastic bags are now widely available here, in some small shops as well as the supermarkets, and so some people in our group began to worry that the market for alternatives to plastic bags may be near to saturation, even while we were progressing the scheme.

Part of what we're trying to do in Hertford is find ways to bring the community on board which are not too confrontational - as, here, that would be counter-productive. So, I look forward to reading the article - and to understanding better the point you make about schemes like Modbury not working, so that we can dialogue about this perhaps a bit more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by don carlin on December 17, 2010 at 11:19

In the TH constitution, in the section entitled “After the Election of the Steering Group” there are a list of actions/aims that may be done, of which point 5 reads - “Engage in and promote education and research” And the devil, as 'they' say, is in the detail – and sometimes, it's in the lack of it:-) below are two versions of the same file, first one is in OpenOffice format, the second one is for MS Word users.

Attachments:

• A Movement for Change - Part One.odt, 25 KB
• A Movement for Change - Part One.doc, 16 KB

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Permalink Reply by Sandra White on December 17, 2010 at 13:29

Hi, Don,

 

many thanks for uploading the alternative document and for your other communications on the themes.   I'm sorry not to have responded sooner, I have a persistent chest infection and am not firing on all cylinders!

 

Re Open Source, yes I do use Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird.  Migrating further is not a priority for me at the moment, but thanks for the nudge!

 

I did not mean to imply that the shopkeepers' deeper engagement with the Hertford Town Bag was lost "purely on the basis of cost".  The cost implications loomed large in the dual context of the recession and the absence of an established commitment to the green agenda.  The task of generating such an established commitment remains huge here.

 

I in particular bring a psychological perspective to this work.  My view is that the green movement has achieved a great deal over the past 60 years using an educational approach, but that we have reached the limits of what it can achieve.  A great deal more has to be understood now about how people function psychologically, what consumerism is rooted in and why affluent, intelligent, good hearted and well intentioned people are closed to doing more for the environmental agenda.  There are, of course, as 'A Movement for Change' proposes, political and other motivations at play too.  I want to bring in a psychological lens alongside these.  I am attaching an article that was published at the start of 2010 by Greenpeace Business which begins to identify the psychological territory, which I think must be taken into account.  For me, at the heart of the matter of how to generate change, rather than further entrenchment in 'business as usual', lies the questions of both how and when to confront and I think that we need to develop new approaches which take account of psychological understanding.

 

I think it likely that the Transition movement does not yet feature large enough in East Herts Council planning department's mind for them to approach us, not least because our profile with them is simply not high enough and I hope that our submission to the LDF process marks the beginning of change on that front.  We do have a good profile with Hertford Town Council, with whom we have been collaborating on the Hertford Town Plan, with the Civic Society and with the Sustainability Officer at East Herts, with whom, alongside 3 other eco groups around Hertford, we ran the first Eco FilmFest on 24th April 2010.  We are hoping to repeat it next Spring, although funding is not yet secured.  These have been our activities for the first year of Transition Hertford, which have taken sensitive account of the culture of the town.

Attachments:

• GPB08-denial.pdf, 347 KB

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on December 19, 2010 at 17:36

Hi Sandra

Commiserations on your chest infection, that can be a real downer, just the everyday things we take for granted, like breathing, can be somewhat compromised so tie a knot in a hanky to remind you to keep doing that yes :-) Me too late responding also, so apologies, was in town visiting a friend who thinks the internet is a problem not a solution !

 

Your response was fascinating, very informative and in some respects intriguing and encouraging, as well as confirming my growing 'feeling' about an entrenched attitude as exemplified by “The task of generating such an established commitment remains huge here.” I'm not certain if that was aimed at just the 'shopkeepers' or was a more generalised comment about the town and district (which would tally with my 'feeling') If so, well, I think there's a lot of that entrenchment about and really that's not to wonder at, our governments have for many centuries and even more so in the last 100 years, sought to shape public opinion and attitudes in ways that suit their own agendas, which are very much the maintenance of the status quo or 'more of the same.' Nevertheless it does represent the first major hurdle to transition and it's a given that we can only remove this obstacle by a process of re-education. Relative to the East Herts Council I'm sure your right, that most excellent critique and summation of the Framework must surely signal a start to that process. Their reaction will I think be a litmus test of how much we need to do in that regard :-) And yes you're right, we do need to understand how that re-education of councils, of individuals, of the community needs to be shaped. I am therefore particularly interested in your proposed psychological approach as denoted thus “A great deal more has to be understood now about how people function psychologically, what consumerism is rooted in and why affluent, intelligent, good hearted and well intentioned people are closed to doing more for the environmental agenda.”

 

I believe part of the key is ithat affluence very often has the effect of cocooning people from the realities of our world, they exist at a level that offers many temptations to resist any change that might effect their cosy 'status quo, leave it as it is, why change it when it's working (for me/us). Their affluence is in effect acting as a set of blinkers on a racehorse, they can only see straight ahead and anything else, particularly of a radical nature is in the province of the “nutters” to quote from another remark about how transitionalists are perceived, by one of our members -

 

“It is incredible that such people are still seen by society as "nutters" when the whole world around them is based on insanity! If it didn't already exist, surely only a crazy person could conjure up a world reliant on infinite growth, which depends entirely upon a finite resource?” Iain Bagnall - Tinker's Bubble

However it's the psychology and the consumerism that you mention that attracted my main attention, hence the small extract from my work as attached :-)

Attachments:

• Understanding the dominatrix 1.odt, 30 KB
• Understanding the dominatrix 1.doc, 31 KB

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Permalink Reply by Sandra White on December 20, 2010 at 12:46

Hi, Don,

 

thanks for this.  I think the art of what we need to do lies in combining the different perspectives - the historic, political analysis with psychological understanding.  One of the tensions is that change is so urgently needed and yet so often takes a long time.

 

With warm Yule greetings,

 

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on December 25, 2010 at 15:01

Alex has just posted a very interesting video "Geof Lawson talks Soil" which illustrates the continuing and growing work being done in Australia to combat the ever increasing effects of climate change, as it presently effects that continent. Australia is heating up - and farmers are having to turn to permaculture for the answers, and those answers are proving very effective indeed. The Australian experience and their response to it illustrates perfectly how humans have generally been throughout our histories. Despite our 'brain power' we never seem to really think ahead much at all. We are reactive and our societies are reflective of that. Our governments too are simply a reflection of that. All governmenets are reactive - and in part that's starting to be a very real problem at every level of government. Real changes, as in those that are harmonious and benign, healing even, seem only ever to come about when we are threatened, most usually by the effects of our own unthinking actions, and there's little doubt that today we are definitely so threatened. The up side of our present situation is that, like Australia we and every other developed country have to change our ways and, fortunately, that's not a matter of choice any more. And more and more people from amongst those who presently think the answer is more of the same, are going to find themselves agreeing with and supporting transition. Gaia may have kickstarted something better than we would have thought possible twenty years ago - that being so I propose we petition the town council to change the name of the town to "Hertford Gaia - an ecologically switched on fraternity somewhere not too far from London" and snatch the title from that ridiculous Welsh offering?

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on January 3, 2011 at 13:25

I'm posting this explanation of transition again as some new members are wondering just what transition is about :-) For those who wish to read it - there are two formats of the file attached below below, one in microsoft word, the other in openoffice format - you should also set some time aside for reading it as it's 31 pages :-) However, when you've read it you'll have pretty informed idea of how and why and what it's about . .

 

Attachments:

• Peak Oil & Transition Initiatives.odt, 90 KB
• Peak Oil & Transition Initiatives.doc, 691 KB

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on January 6, 2011 at 21:33

 

 

A brief summation of the Cancún CC 'summit' can be read here -

http://www.climatealliance.co.uk/?p=243

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on January 7, 2011 at 0:40

Hi again Sandra – the demands of friends have occupied most my time with the celebrations approaching fast so this is indeed a late response :-)

The 'time thing' is yes an element that presses upon our hopes and projected goals for transition and it can often be a downer to consider how much entrenched opposition to changes that are so obviously needed is blocking real and effective progress, as in wish there was more happening.

I think this is a distinct pointer to how and what we might focus our efforts upon, a pointer which in effect helps inform that art of how we can best understand and mobilise our efforts to their best effect. (as you've probably realised in some senses I hope to supply at least some of those historical perspectives as well as insight into the reality of our societal systems, as per my latest attachment :-)

The establishment of a good working relationship with Hertford Town Council in the first year of TH is a brilliant first step and achievement and the additional relationship with the Sustainability Officer at EHC is a good first toehold to further such advances. Even if slowly to begin with, I'd expect those relationships to improve and widen by virtue of my observations as below, pertaining to entrenched attitudes.

If we leave aside small communities of just a very few thousand who have no real allegiance to the status quo, such as Totnes, Kinsale, etc. the average time scale within which change is accomplished by any of the worlds transition initiatives is between ten and twenty years. In that perspective TH can be considered as being on track after just a single year, which has unavoidably had a main focus of organising and discussion. There is weight upon us because we are well aware of just how quickly the climate and energy depletion scenarios may change for the worse. However with every such change for the worse the chances of changing our communities become much improved.

Since the latest financial débâcle we have been cushioned from the real shocks of that meltdown by 'quantitative easing,' together with an interest rate that is just about non existent and is being held down artificially, rather than exposed to true market forces. Quantitative easing is of course the BoE and government printing more and more treasury bonds and more and more 'money' and exchanging them with each other. QI is just a new phrase for something that always attends these financial meltdowns (actually today they don't do any real printing, these are simply book keeping entries in a spreadsheet program running on a computer, today only 3% of what we still call 'money' is actual currency notes, the rest is just numbers in bank and company ledgers) Since the Gold Standard was ditched by governments (reacting to pressure from the Central Banks) money as such has no intrinsic value. So when 'new money' is brought into circulation, it has to draw it's value from the existing money. (The British government were the first to throw the Gold Standard out, at the behest of the BoE -the world's first Central Reserve Bank and still the spider at the center of the world's monetary systems - America followed suit and other governments soon got the message)

This effectively drives interest rates up and these rises and falls are expressed as the rate of inflation in our economies. Normally this is a 'free floating' rate, driven by market forces. Sometimes high inflation rates are, for a while, politically unacceptable, so by agreement of the Central Reserve Bank these can be artificially suppressed, but that can only be done for a short time before the floodgates are forced open by global financial pressure, otherwise our 'currency' would lose it's global status as an 'exchange' commodity (by which trade and commerce is carried out internationally - note that although normally in consultation with government, in the final analysis any decisions on interest rates is solely the province of the Central Reserve Bank, i.e. the BoE)

And very soon now, those interest rates will have to rise and they will continue to rise, well above the rates in force when most of those more affluent 'we prefer the status quo' adherents took out their mortgages and stacked up on their credit cards. Whist they're assimilating those financial shocks by which many will default on mortgages and lose their homes, they are, as already witnessed, beginning to pay substantially more for all their energy needs and, as we are well aware, those prices too will only get higher. Along with food and just about everything else rising well above today's prices by the knock on effect.

I think we'll find a great deal more enthusiasm for more 'radical' but well thought out and already working alternatives to their cosy status quo when all of the above starts to really bite those 'stay as we are, more of the same advocates and supporters beyond their abilities to assimilate and cope.

In the meantime, we transitionalists can perhaps consider anew how best to focus our efforts, and keep making headway with those who are supportive of us. I have a few ideas about those areas, which as yet are simply that whilst I seek more information from various members, which hopefully will help them to a point worthy of discussion
:-)

Attachments:

• Unabridged - Understanding the dominatrix 2.doc, 37 KB
• Unabridged - Understanding the dominatrix 2.odt, 32 KB

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