Raising funds for TH

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by carolyn westlake on July 3, 2010 at 19:28

Hi Ben

I have to say I am not keen on TH joining this scheme at all. Whilst Green Energy is a way of promoting just that through a local company (based in Ware) and the Waitrose scheme doesnt involve anyone having to spend money to show support for us, Easy Fundraising is a different kettle of fish altogether. TH is working to celebrate and support local businesses and getting a cut from Amazon or Ebay is doing the opposite.
What do others think?

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Permalink Reply by Ben on July 6, 2010 at 9:15

yes I do agree they certainly aren't particularly local. But there is no local bookshop (unless you want TH handbooks, of course). Or music store etc. I'm sure you could argue that it probably releases less pollution buying a book online than travelling to Hoddesdon in a car.

I do think that Ebay can fit with the local model (you can choose to buy from people within a few miles and there are local businesses that use it), and though it does take a small cut, it also encourages waste reduction.

Trying to play devil's avocado.

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on August 14, 2010 at 23:44

Hello Ben & Carolyn, this item seems to be squarely at the core of what TT's are about and what they're supposed to be about. i.e. the ethos that provides the energy and commitment that drives at least the core membership yes? If you question that, perhaps you might refer to either Rob Hopkins, Louisa Rooney or Catherine Dunne, I feel sure they'll try to find time to offer what guidance you may need about supporting local business and endeavours as much as possible, though of course, they are extremely busy. Last I heard Robs still in Totnes from time to time and the others are still busy in Kinsale:-)

In this instance I agree with Carolyn's point of view, as the more local businesses are supported the better - Transition Towns are about a great deal more than alternative energy initiatives and such, though those are of course important - they have a primary focus on rebuilding the local community as a potent force for change. I have absolutely no idea how far Hoddesdon is from Hertford, but I would certainly opt to telephone or better yet email the bookshop there - if that's available, I'm equally sure they'd be delighted to supply, even post it to you if that fits the bill - and if it isn't perhaps a friendly nudge to the bookshop wouldn't go amiss. If I have a title I want (and I often do) I certainly try to obtain it as locally as possible. Further, there are 60 odd members of HTT now, if all local members agree to try the Hoddeston book store when buying a book (or anything else for that matter in Hertford, Ware, Hoddeston or wherever) it would be an excellent bargaining chip if someone went along to that store, got them perhaps to take notice of and do it's best yes? Perhaps they could be pursuaded to offer a discount to members? Perhaps that saving could be passed back to HTT? Who knows. But one thing is for certain. You'll never know if you don't try isn't it. They might even be amenable to a tasteful flyer publicising HTT? And imo that's it, always think community first if you really want things to change yes? Because for sure that's were effective change begins.

Personally I'm certainly not in favour of deals with online big business elites in any way shape or form if it can be avoided. and it's surprising how often it can be so avoided. Big business is a great, some would say the most significant part of what's actually wrong with our world!

It would be even more interesting if there was a straw poll of the membership about decisions like this! And it might be even more interesting if this kind of agenda could be put forward, chatted about, informed about and agreed by all members as the core 'constitution' or agreed aims of HTT? They of course might actually exist, but if they do, they don't seem in any way available. I know this because I've looked so if someone could point me in the right direction?

Just me, responding off the top of my head yes - it really would be interesting if an informed membership got involved in this and other such issues don't you think? Or are we not agreed that bottom up is way better than the eternal top down of our long centuries past?
My very best regards, Ben - Carolyn
don

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on August 15, 2010 at 11:32

Incidentally, if an agreement could be reached to use local stores and business, try not to pay by card or cheque, that way the store/business gets an extra 2% or whatever is the present rate, which would normally be charged against the transcation by the bankers. If we were negotiating 'membership' deals with individual local stores etc. that too could be part of the bargaining process perhaps?
cheers
don

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Permalink Reply by carolyn westlake on August 16, 2010 at 21:57

Hi Don,
You make a lot of interesting points...

Firstly, there is a link right at the bottom of the page that should take you to our Constitution and Minutes of the steering group meetings. Unfortunately I tried to follow the link tonight and it just says unavailable. I have no idea why but I know a man who will!!

Anyway our Constitution hopefully deals with some of your questions eg aims of TH and how our decision making process works,particularly with regard to supporting local businesses and our need for transparency. Earlier this year at our AGM the Constitution was on the agenda and gone through (again) and ratified by the majority of attendees. I am glad you have let us know you couldnt find it. Hopefully we can quickly rectify that.

There has been some discussions on how we can support local businesses and efforts have been made to make links with some of them.Of course the Transition model of a local currency is tempting but at the moment only an aspiration, we need many more members to get involved before we could attempt such a large project. And more member involvement is what we are working towards and one of the major aims of the steering group. As you probably know, the Transition model envisages a temporary group to get things started with awareness raising events and community building initiatives etc. Once a momentum amongst the general membership is reached and people start planning their own working groups and contributions to working groups the demise of the steering group can proceed.

My final point is to do with your comment that "bottom up is way better than the eternal top down of our long centuries past". Whilst I agree that Transition is about empowering communities I just want to explain that I see in that aim the need to be as inclusive to as many sections of the people of Hertford as possible. And that means working with our Councils whether at Town, District or County level as well as local community initiatives. The last thing we need is to polarise people- the times are so urgent we need to reach out to each other and recognise the strengths and weaknesses we all share.

Actually thats not my final point! I noticed you said you didnt know where Hoddesdon was and your info says you are from Kent. Just wondering what your connection is with Hertford and if you belong to a Transition Town near you. Are you thinking of moving here? Its a lovely town.....

don carlin said:

Hello Ben & Carolyn, this item seems to be squarely at the core of what TT's are about and what they're supposed to be about. i.e. the ethos that provides the energy and commitment that drives at least the core membership yes? If you question that, perhaps you might refer to either Rob Hopkins, Louisa Rooney or Catherine Dunne, I feel sure they'll try to find time to offer what guidance you may need about supporting local business and endeavours as much as possible, though of course, they are extremely busy. Last I heard Robs still in Totnes from time to time and the others are still busy in Kinsale:-)

In this instance I agree with Carolyn's point of view, as the more local businesses are supported the better - Transition Towns are about a great deal more than alternative energy initiatives and such, though those are of course important - they have a primary focus on rebuilding the local community as a potent force for change. I have absolutely no idea how far Hoddesdon is from Hertford, but I would certainly opt to telephone or better yet email the bookshop there - if that's available, I'm equally sure they'd be delighted to supply, even post it to you if that fits the bill - and if it isn't perhaps a friendly nudge to the bookshop wouldn't go amiss. If I have a title I want (and I often do) I certainly try to obtain it as locally as possible. Further, there are 60 odd members of HTT now, if all local members agree to try the Hoddeston book store when buying a book (or anything else for that matter in Hertford, Ware, Hoddeston or wherever) it would be an excellent bargaining chip if someone went along to that store, got them perhaps to take notice of and do it's best yes? Perhaps they could be pursuaded to offer a discount to members? Perhaps that saving could be passed back to HTT? Who knows. But one thing is for certain. You'll never know if you don't try isn't it. They might even be amenable to a tasteful flyer publicising HTT? And imo that's it, always think community first if you really want things to change yes? Because for sure that's were effective change begins.

Personally I'm certainly not in favour of deals with online big business elites in any way shape or form if it can be avoided. and it's surprising how often it can be so avoided. Big business is a great, some would say the most significant part of what's actually wrong with our world!

It would be even more interesting if there was a straw poll of the membership about decisions like this! And it might be even more interesting if this kind of agenda could be put forward, chatted about, informed about and agreed by all members as the core 'constitution' or agreed aims of HTT? They of course might actually exist, but if they do, they don't seem in any way available. I know this because I've looked so if someone could point me in the right direction?

Just me, responding off the top of my head yes - it really would be interesting if an informed membership got involved in this and other such issues don't you think? Or are we not agreed that bottom up is way better than the eternal top down of our long centuries past?
My very best regards, Ben - Carolyn
don

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Permalink Reply by don carlin on August 18, 2010 at 23:18

hey Carolyn - and Ben - huge thanks for the info' (just read Ben's message that the site is being updated, modified, moved out of the Ning system so some links won't work but he and Nathan are on it and normal service (or different and or better - one isn't sure as yet:-) will be resumed just as soon as another bus arrives)

*stands at the bus stop looking bewildered*

Um yes, totally agree with the need to embrace and work with local council(s) institutions, movements et al - recognise that as being an important part of the process - and yes the original steering group (a great job by the way from everyone involved in that) and demise as working groups are established - and the model moves on

I'm looking at options to move closer to my g/f (she's in Ware) in the next six months (tied for a while to my present location) and had Hertford down as the nearest TT to Ware so it seemed to make sense to join, get to know who, how, where, why, why not and all that - I recognise that I can often seem critical (a result of looking at so much of our world that doesn't work, needs repairing, adjusting, re-invigorating, removed and replaced with better/different etc) Actually there's a great deal that does work exactly as intended. Some of that is either beneficial to us, the 'ordianary' citizens, or at least intended as such, some is distinctly not and that too is so intended. That's a major problem of recognition and understanding by all who attempt to change 'the system.' (which is a major focus of my own work)

Insofar as I've watched, studied and sometimes had occasional online correspondences with some of the originators and their successors and other TT initiatives in various countries - which started out from a research point of view (I do a lot of that :-) I'm reasonably conversant with the concept and processes.

I'm looking forward to the time when nut and fruit trees and fruit bearing shrubs and a little helpful public gardening perhaps becomes the reality in Hertford -and I've re-thought my initial reaction to the Save Hertford initiative btw – those young people have a lot of energy (hopefully) and a different perspective that may well be useful, instructive and beneficial to HTTI – I am however still of the mind that a direct hook up rather than facebook or such, we can presumably always invite any of their interested members to become members of HTTI yes, so that would accomplish an online meeting place where we could interact? Maybe a 'meet and get to know you event?' at Carolyn's? Check yr breakage and refurbishing insurance is my advice lol.

Might be nice to direct the harvest from those trees etc. to local hospices, children's wards etc.? Maybe plaques to inform the public of that at each location/street of that intended use and acknowledging it as a joint council/HTT initiative?And of course the obvious local newspapers and local TV news channel, together with a small camera shoot by them -they're always on the look out for 'fillers' that can be slotted in even a week or so after the event took place and of course, they're keen on 'local.' After all, the best publicity is good publicity, both for those who seek re-election, for those who seek a different route, for the moment anyway, and for those who have a remit to report l;ocal events yes? :-)

The local council might stump for those plaques, as well as the uprooting part of the exercise? I rate that as such a beautiful sign to the community that things are changing :-)
my best regards
don

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Permalink Reply by Wenderlynn Jane Bagnall on October 3, 2010 at 20:02

I've just had an email from Green Energy offering me (and other Transition members) a discount if we use them. Sorry if I'm a bit behind this discussion but any way. I definitely won't be using them. For a start we use Ecotricty, the reason being they don't believe in shareholders and put all their money back into building wind turbines etc. Plus they have a turbine you can actually walk up! I'd love to do it but I'm too chicken. By the way after brushing up on my very limited knowledge of what Transition really means, I'm definitely up for keeping everything local and supporting local business'. Bear with me guys whilst I try to get to grips with what it means to be a Transition Town. Iain ( my very wonderful hubby :-) ) has pointed in the direction of a good book so I'll get reading. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Liz Bell on October 16, 2010 at 16:57

Wendy,

Just responding to your comments about Green Energy. It's fantastic that you've already made that decision to go green with your electricity. It's one of those things where people often think the only way to have green electricity is to have a solar panel or wind turbine- lots of people don't realise you can just buy it as an alternative to conventional brown energy!

The main reason Transition have chosen Green Energy UK is because it's a locally based company (based in Ware), and part of what Transition Hertford feels is really important is supporting local business. In addition, while you're right in saying that Green Energy doesn't actually set out to own its own generation, I don't necessarily think this is a negative. They buy from independent generators (only green and renewable, and no nuclear) and give them a very good rate for the electricity they generate. In fact, all of the electricity bought by the company is from generators that weren't around when the company was set up in 2001, so in a way I suppose the company chooses to support new technologies in a different way to Ecotricity. Each company is doing a great job, but their business models are just a bit different.

In terms of the shares, actually the company gives free shares to all of its customers- so it's not like the typical share structure of other companies where you have to buy shares and can only benefit in that way. It's a way of recognising the leap that people make in moving to a green energy tariff to make a difference, and rewarding them for this by letting them have a say, as shareholders, in how the company is run, and hopefully financially too- they recently gave a credit to the accounts of all their long term customers.

I hope this helps!

Liz



Wenderlynn Jane Bagnall said:

I've just had an email from Green Energy offering me (and other Transition members) a discount if we use them. Sorry if I'm a bit behind this discussion but any way. I definitely won't be using them. For a start we use Ecotricty, the reason being they don't believe in shareholders and put all their money back into building wind turbines etc. Plus they have a turbine you can actually walk up! I'd love to do it but I'm too chicken. By the way after brushing up on my very limited knowledge of what Transition really means, I'm definitely up for keeping everything local and supporting local business'. Bear with me guys whilst I try to get to grips with what it means to be a Transition Town. Iain ( my very wonderful hubby :-) ) has pointed in the direction of a good book so I'll get reading. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Ben on October 17, 2010 at 11:42

Hi Wenderlynn
blimey it's great that you're signed up for green electricity - so few people are. And I dont think anyone at Transition Hertford would claim that Green Energy is "better" than anyone else offering all renewable electricity. I know Dick Warn sings the praises of his supplier, Good Energy - but as Liz says, Green Energy is a local company. And they've offered TH members a discount.
Ecotricity certainly sound good - I'd love to go up a turbine. Yet I think you can now have a look at one of Green Eletricity generators too (though it isn't quite so spectacular!) Ray is having a party to celebrate the switch on of his solar panels - he's with Green Energy I think. That right Ray? Are they buying your power? Ben

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Permalink Reply by Wenderlynn Jane Bagnall on October 19, 2010 at 16:21

thanks Lisa for the info. I'm always happy to be kept informed. I do understand what you're saying about Green energy, I'm just weary of who take service from and Ecotrictiy seemed at the time to be as genuine a supplier of Green energy I could find. I do think it's a great idea that Green Energy have share holders that have a say in how the company is run rather than just making a profit from it. I suppose I need to understand both companies mission more. I know Iain and myself do want to do what is right for both the community and the planet and if that means switching to Green Energy then I'm sure I can speak for both of us in saying that is what we will do :-)



Liz Bell said:

Wendy,

Just responding to your comments about Green Energy. It's fantastic that you've already made that decision to go green with your electricity. It's one of those things where people often think the only way to have green electricity is to have a solar panel or wind turbine- lots of people don't realise you can just buy it as an alternative to conventional brown energy!

The main reason Transition have chosen Green Energy UK is because it's a locally based company (based in Ware), and part of what Transition Hertford feels is really important is supporting local business. In addition, while you're right in saying that Green Energy doesn't actually set out to own its own generation, I don't necessarily think this is a negative. They buy from independent generators (only green and renewable, and no nuclear) and give them a very good rate for the electricity they generate. In fact, all of the electricity bought by the company is from generators that weren't around when the company was set up in 2001, so in a way I suppose the company chooses to support new technologies in a different way to Ecotricity. Each company is doing a great job, but their business models are just a bit different.

In terms of the shares, actually the company gives free shares to all of its customers- so it's not like the typical share structure of other companies where you have to buy shares and can only benefit in that way. It's a way of recognising the leap that people make in moving to a green energy tariff to make a difference, and rewarding them for this by letting them have a say, as shareholders, in how the company is run, and hopefully financially too- they recently gave a credit to the accounts of all their long term customers.

I hope this helps!

Liz



Wenderlynn Jane Bagnall said:

I've just had an email from Green Energy offering me (and other Transition members) a discount if we use them. Sorry if I'm a bit behind this discussion but any way. I definitely won't be using them. For a start we use Ecotricty, the reason being they don't believe in shareholders and put all their money back into building wind turbines etc. Plus they have a turbine you can actually walk up! I'd love to do it but I'm too chicken. By the way after brushing up on my very limited knowledge of what Transition really means, I'm definitely up for keeping everything local and supporting local business'. Bear with me guys whilst I try to get to grips with what it means to be a Transition Town. Iain ( my very wonderful hubby :-) ) has pointed in the direction of a good book so I'll get reading. :-)

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Permalink Reply by Wenderlynn Jane Bagnall on October 19, 2010 at 16:26

Hi Ben do you mean are Ecotricty buying back our power or was that meant for Ray? I love the idea of celebrating the Sun!!!!! (well that's kind of what Ray will be doing when he has a party for his solar panels) Hey Ray you should call it the "Ray of Sunshine party" :-)



Ben said:

Hi Wenderlynn
blimey it's great that you're signed up for green electricity - so few people are. And I dont think anyone at Transition Hertford would claim that Green Energy is "better" than anyone else offering all renewable electricity. I know Dick Warn sings the praises of his supplier, Good Energy - but as Liz says, Green Energy is a local company. And they've offered TH members a discount.
Ecotricity certainly sound good - I'd love to go up a turbine. Yet I think you can now have a look at one of Green Eletricity generators too (though it isn't quite so spectacular!) Ray is having a party to celebrate the switch on of his solar panels - he's with Green Energy I think. That right Ray? Are they buying your power? Ben

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Permalink Reply by Wenderlynn Jane Bagnall on October 19, 2010 at 16:30

I like the idea of the Easy Fundrasing scheme. Any news on the Waitrose nomination?

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